(These notes were originally compiled by Pecheur and republished
here by permission with the provision that the
following notice appear:
“these are just notes and contemplations not well
written docs”)
Been reading Revelation Four Views edited by Steve
Gregg. I wanted to try to nail down where I fall on the issue. For Matt, I have
purchased Grentz and will try to deal with it after this (and other open
thoughts).
With this modern problem and in what I've read in the commentary (Rev 1-3), I
do not see a need to view the seven churches representing seven eras of church
history. The main reason I am more apt to reject it is that it is Western
Church history. Now if someone could prove that seven eras exist in Asia and
Africa in the same way I might could accept it better. There is allowance for
this if one sees the history of the church in those lands as growing later than
in Western World. (as in the world today, there are pre modern societies,
modern societies, and maybe post modern societies, not everyone is moving in
the same direction at the same time, like the Western World).
The identity of the 24 elders. None of the options seem to work out. Will
reread and make a tentative descision.
24 elders= I do not know yet. I like the
spiritual view that they represent the redeemed of all the ages, but could see
pret. view as being church. Can't dismiss yet the fut. view of angels nor hist.
of triumphant church.
4 Living Creatures= Like hist. view with ancient thrones being supported by
carved things but here living where the lion= wild animals; ox= domestic;
eagle= birds; and man= intellectual creatures. But the prets have a good point
about them being cherubim. And futs make sense with crystalized sea from
tabernacle and the 4 creatures represent the 4 gospels portraits of christ lion
(matt=King), ox (mark=Servant), eagle (john=God, sort of confused on this one),
and man (luke= Son of Man). And can't forget the spiritualist who see a
combined seraphim and cherubim who symbolize all of creation.
The Sealed Book= No clue. Like futs title to land whereby God gets land back
after results of Fall taken care of. Spirits look good as representing
redemptive plan of God. Prets??? with sentences to be carried out by Jesus for
bad things re: Matt
23:35.
Rev 5:7-10 interpretated as replacement of Israel for church. not willing to
give that up yet.
First Seal
H: from Domitian to Commodus
P: All seals are just before Jerusalem destroyed
F: AntiChrist coming
S: general military conquest
Second Seal
H: Commodus to Diocletian. Much blood shed
P: Jewish Civil Wars backed by Josephus
F: War in Tribulation
S: Wars in general thruout ages; and if white= Christ, red= persecution from
spread of gospel
For one unexcusable reason or another I've
not been blogging much, and when I do the entries are huge. That sometimes
discourages readers from reading or even coming back. I have several back blogs
(aka in my world blackogs; but not to be confused with black hogs). So even
though they are very long, take heart, you'll probably have many days in which
to read them. Hahahahahaha
First things first. In an attempt to help
me finish the 4 Views Commentary on Revelation, the next couple of posts will
be about that. Then, we'll move on to other things started and never finished.
So, I plan to spend a couple days writing, reading your blogs, and interacting
with you here or there. Well, with out further adieu let's jump right into our
favorite subject Revelation.
There are four major views of the book of
Revelation. I am trying to see where I may land (at least for the time being).
This is a quest that began in seminary after taking an eschatology class. I had
more questions than answers (which is typical when one studies "end
times") after the class than before. It's funny. There appears to be two
classes of study of the book of Revelation.
1) It's too hard
and so why worry about it. "I am a pan-millennialist--it'all
pan out in the end." In other words cop-out excuse.
2) Those who
become enraptured with it and that's all they study, neglecting the other 65
books, while reading every current event as THE sign for the 2nd Coming.
Frankly, both of these extremes are
dangerous. I would like to be right in the middle--that is taking the study in
relationship to the entire canon. Thus, hopefully focusing on the details of
the book with the intention of examing how, in general, the book fits into the
whole of canon. Not to mention I have some questions related to Matt 24 and 28
in reference to world missions and the end of 2nd coming.
H stands for the
historists point of view. The events describe Christian History
P stands for the
preterists point of view. The events describe the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD
F stands for the
futurists point of view. The events describe future end of world
S stands for the
spiritualist point of view. The events describe the church in every era. The
languagae is spiritual.
I am up to the 3rd Seal.
H: fiscal oppression of emperors, grain
given monetary value then, thus more grain produced= higher taxes paid, so
people purposefully destroyed crops of grain.
P: famine, scales= bread measured out as in
Lev
26:26; denarius= day's wage=quart of wheat; Jews suffered food shortage
during Roman occupation; Jews "pillaged oil and wine from temple"=
they did not have oil and wine.
F: famine from previous seal of war; some
see capitalist taking advantage of peace and gaining control of oil, food, and
money. People will work all day for a loaf of bread. Life goes down to
necessities.
S: famine; denarius= day's pay; oil and
wine= luxuries; rich able to maintain their life styles; Domitian did order
grape cultivation to stop but people rebelled and it was appelled, thus the
vines not hurt by Domitian. If the 1st seal= advance of gospel and 2nd seal=
persecution, then 3rd= economic persecution of gospel carriers.
4th Seal:
H: Fulfilled between 248 and 268 AD of
Decius, Gallus, Aemilianus, Valerian and Gallienus; sword and famine may have
knocked out 1/2 population of earth; supported by historian Gibbon.
P: conditions around the the seige of 70 AD
F: future death of 1/4 of population; may
be Great Trib from Matt
24:21
S: the death of 1/4 of population=
recurrent geographical limited judgments of God. Thus not necessarily one great
catastrophic event. It (4 horsemen) were how Rome was and how it fell as well
as others. Or symbolical of universal troubles of believers in the suffering.
5th Seal:
H: church under Diocletian.
P: souls slain like animal sacrifices of
Jews. persecution still going on at time of writing ("who dwell on
earth[or land]"). cf Matt
23:35 and Luke
18:1-8
F: martyrs during tribulation
S: the suffering church
6th Seal:
H: fall of paganism to Christianity;
earthquake= metaphor for political and spiritual revolution; sun etc= earthly
dignitaries; Or this could be the invasion of the Goths and Vandals.
P: this is the great and terrible day of
Lord predicted by Malachi et al especially Jesus in Matt
24:29,34. cf Mal
3:2 with v17; end of the Jewish state; same language used in OT to show the
end of empires (see Isa
13:10 and Ez
32:7-8) and cf v13 & 14 to Isa.
34:4 and Matt 24:29,34; also cf vss 15 and 16 to Luke
23:28-31.
F: beginning of last days; earthquake= a
sign of divine visitation (Ex
19:18; Isa
2:19; Hag
2:6); maybe literal language and symbolical language showing civic and
government powers shaken; symbolic of destruction of present order (political
social and ecclesiastical); literal= an actual earthquake caused by volcano
that spews ash into sky to hide light of sun; Hal Lindsey=nuclear exchange; and
falling stars= Russian bombs.
S: judgment of God on those opposing
Christians in John's day (Roman Empire); Or 2nd Coming where 1st 5 seals are
social and political that reoccurs but this represents a climax.
So now that we have gotten past six seals,
let's explore Rev 7 and subsequence chapters.
Sealed
H: this is the 2nd half of 6th seal where Christians were sealed from
persecution following Constantine; the withholding of winds= either of war or
error in church during Constantine (re:Arius and Pelagius); or from the time of
the Albigenses and Waldensenes to the Reformation (or to fall of Napolean
Bonaparte)
P: God identifies His before destroying apostate Israel similar to Eze
9 where God identifies His before invasion; the protected ones were Jewish
Christians
F: the saved during the trib.
S: "After these things"does not= sequence of events but indicates the
order of the visions; 4winds= 4horsemen (Zech
6:5); this sealing has occured before the 1st 4 seals opened. Who can
stand? only those God has sealed
Who are the 144,000
H: symbol of the church (whole), the Israel of God; the professing church in
the Roman Empire
P: the # of faithful that only God knows; its the Jewish Christians who fled to
Pella {I've been there!!!!!}; or it is a symbol of full # (firstfruits Rev 14:4
not last fruits)
F: Jewish believers sealed from Great trib who evangelize the entire world (see
Matt
24:14). "of all the tribes of hte children of Israel" does not
equal the church. Physical Israel was divided into tribes, the church has never
been divided by tribes; fulfills God bringing Israel to repentance in last days
(Zech
12:10-13; Rom
11:26-32); NON-pretribers say 144= symbol of church in Trib, this is the
last generation church who experience these horrors
S: symbol of the church as a representative of Israel; it is not a literal #
Innumerable multitude
H: group sealed earlier; church that is not Jewish
P: these are those who come to Christ (gentiles) as a result of God seeking
Gentiles because of Jewish rebelllion (Hos 1:10; 2:23; Rom 9:24ff; 1P 2:9ff;
Isa 49:20-22); universal gospel proclaimed as a result of end of Jews being
God's people
F: these that the 144 led to the Lord in the future Trib; they will go into
Mill but with a lower status; OR could be those on earth before Mill throne
where the Temple has already erected as in seen in Eze 40-44; OR church after
trib is over.
S: there has been a shift from earth to heaven; #'s =church glorified
At Rev
8-10 section I have rejected the Historical viewpoint. From now on will only
report and read in response to interest. I reject this view because of its bias
towards Western Christianity, and the pure speculation over interpretation. I
know these arguements are similar to the rejection of the other view
(especially the futurist viewpoint). The preterist, at this point, should still
be considered because it may be in keeping with prophetic literature of the OT.
The futurist viewpoint should also be kept in play because of the
"historical-grammatical-cultural literal hermenutic" which has caused
it to come under intense fire from the other three positions. The Spiritual
should also be heard because of its dealing with the symbols of the book. All three
have severe weakness, which is not worthy to be mentioned at the moment. But
whatever "system" one adopts, it will be riddled with gaps of
information that will make it inconclusive as to "the right" way to
understand Revelation.
1st Trumpet
P: 1st 4 separated from last 3; Jewish Wars of 66-70 AD; trees=people (maybe
elect thus they will suffer too); could be actual vegetation destroyed by Rome
F: hail and trees= literal or symbolical 1/3 of vegetation will be destroyed or
1/3 of western confederate (not sure what that is); trees= leaders; grass=
ordinary people
S: trumpets represent warnings because only affects 1/3. Trumpets=Seals
2nd Trumpet
P: Jewish Wars of 66-70 AD; Mt=govt. or kingdoms. Jerusalem was burned by
Romans; fire=judgment; sea= Gentile nations in opposition to "the"
land=Israel; fig tree curse related to Mt. into sea by Jesus (Matt
21:21) thus symbolic not literal. The Mt. into the sea=Israel into the
Gentile nations as a result of disciples' prayer vss3-5(ch8); prayers offered
--> fire cast down see Josephus Wars III:10:9
F: could be literal or symbolic; sea=Gentile nations, therefore Antichrist in
the Gentile world; Mt.=kingdom. If literal then large object falling from
heaven maybe a great astroid; or maybe it is just judgment
S: Babylon's fall in OT was a Mt. on fire (Jer
51:25,42), therefore= any city at any period; If 1st equals man's
environment, then 2nd = commerce.
3rd Trumpet Wormwood
P: Fresh water polluted by decay in Sea of Galilee; symbolic of Israel at Marah
(Ex
15:26): healing=healing of bitter bondage (Deut 28:59-60) v10 cf Ex
15:25; symbol combines fall of Egypt and Babylon;Wormwood = Israel=
apostate Egypt and Jerusalem= Babylon or covenant breakers and will be
destroyed
F: Antichrist activity or Papal activity (I knew the Pope had to come into
play); stars=religious dignitaries; it is the fall of the people who go after
the Antichrist; if symbolic hard to tel if Satan or Antichrist; maybe
waters=people; literal could be star=meteor that contains fresh water; Some say
Wormwood=Chernobyl
S: judgment symbol by pollution of water; waters= natural resources that
sustain life. As God uses inland waters to flood and destroy it is a warning to
repent (so all of you along the Gulf Caost REPENT REPENT REPENT teehee).
freshwater=God; polluted waters=idols
4th Trumpet
P: Not really understand this position. Imagery used to describe fall of
nations
F: diminished light of spiritual perception in Trib
This hopefully we'll be short.
4th Trumpet
P: imagery is used to describe the fall of nations (Isa 13:9-11,19; 24:19-23;
34:4-5; Eze 32: 7-8, 11-12; Joel 2:10, 28-32; Acts 2:16-21); rulers were the
quenched etc
F: diminished light of spiritual perception
in Trib (2 Thess 2:11-12); sun=great authority, moon=derived authority, stars=
subordinate authority; if literal could be eclipse and may result in shorter
days (Matt 24:22); the light reduced throughout day due to pollution.
S: Universe is used to warn those who do
not serve him. Because it is only 1/3 and and all then this has to be a warning
for impending judgment unless repentance occurs.
Woes Announced Rev 8:13
P: prophetic warnings done by eagles (Deut
28:49; Jer 4:13 et al); covenant curse on those who broke covenant eaten by
birds (Gen 15:9-12; Deut 28:26 etc)
F: are these "angels" or
"eagles"; 1st 4= warning while the last 3= worse judgments
S: shows a set where 1st 4 seals are
associated with 4 horesemen and 1st 4 trumpets are associated with
announcements
5th Trumpet
P: locust= moral and spiritual errors; Jews came under demonic attacks (Matt
12:43-45); OR the spread of diseases; 5 months in verse5= May to September of
Zealots; OR just a short time
F: fallen star= is same as in 3rd trumpet (8:10)which = the Pope, but the
heresy is not theology of Rome but Gnosticism; the star= Satan; the bottomless
pit=dwelling of the demons; locust are release of demons; OR invading armies
(Eze 38)
S: shows the internal decay of Roman Empire; locusts= demons; fallen star=
Satan; bottomless pit= prison of demons (Luke 10:19); 5 months= normal life
span of locust thus indicates a limited duration
Locusts Described
P: demons who afflict Jews (see Josephus War IV:9:10)
F: Apollyon could be a jab at the Greek Apollo; because of the use of Greek and
Hebrew may indicate that both Jews and Gentiles have come under the same power.
S: demons here; Greek word stephanos used here, also used with Christ and the
saints; teeth show the ferocity of enemy; the iron breastplates= invulnerable
enemy; the king= Satan
6th Trumpet
P: The Romans who arrive after the “locusts” were from the Euphrates (see War
7:1:3); the Assyrians and the Babylonians had come from the Euphrates; see
specific prediction in Dan 9:26 (cf Mark 13:3; Luke 21:7; 20 and Olivet
Discourse in v 32 and v22
F: loosed demons to kill 1/3 of mankind; an army comes from the East
(Euphrates); Euphrates has been the boundary of East and West (see Rev 16:12);
this comes just as God ordained
S: boundary between East and West; golden altars where saints prayers were.
Maybe their prayers bring the judgment
Army Described
P: 200 mil is not literal; fulfillment of curse on covenant breakers from Deut
28; happens at the end of the Jewish War or invasion in 66 AD
F: horsemen are either 1) demonic or 2) literal armies; 200 mil could be
invasion from China; the Greek suggest simply an unnumberal invasion
S: external invasion of Rome; infliction could be spiritual, intended to bring
men to repentance; horse symbol of military machinery; tails of serpent=
aftermath of war; = all wars in this dispensation, concrete examples are the
Two World Wars
Rev 10:5-7
P: if sea=Gentile and land=Israel, then Gentiles now on equal footing in the
church
S: the mystery of God= the union of the Jews and Gentiles
Eating of Book
P: eating similar to Eze 3:1-3,14, where Jerusalem conquered by Babylon, but
here it is by Rome in 70AD; could be fall of Jews and Roman Empire; if this is
the Jewish fall, then it shows impact of the fall of Jerusalem upon global
gospel mission.
Summary of Rev 8-10
H: 6 trumpets= foreign invaders against Roman Empire through fall of
Constantinople in 1453; the open Book= Bible to the common people and fueled by
the Reformation.
P: trumpets associated with 66-70AD Jewish Wars; locusts=demons; horses= Rome;
little book; represent the rest of Revelation;
F: unprecedented events of the Tribulation; little book= God’s word and
purposes
S: God judges through natural and catastrophic disasters; these are warnings to
sinful man
Preview of Rev 11-13
H: 1260= years of papal Rome;
2 wit= Waldenses and Albigenses;
Woman= visible church persecuted by Rome before 313 AD;
Male child=church (true) vindicated by Constantine;
Beasts= different aspects of papacy
P: 1260= period of Jewish Wars or Nero’s persecution;
2 wit= witnesses against Jerusalem or civil and/or religious authorities;
Woman= Israel who births
Child= church and flees Jerusalem (during Jewish Wars)
1st beast= Rome;
2nd beast= cult of emperor; maybe represents some Roman procurator or false
prophets of Israel
F: 1260= literal 3 ½ years at the end of tribulation; OR 2 lengths that = 7yrs
2 wit= future appearances in Jerusalem (Moses and Elijah) or (Enoch and Elijah)
Woman= faithful Israel and has to flee because of the Antichrist
S: 1260= church age
2 wit= church throughout church age;
Woman= same as 2 witnesses (above);
1st beast= any political powers that persecutes the church;
2nd beast= false religion
Two Witnesses
H: Waldenses and Albigenses; OR others; “There has always been a true church
comprised of true worshippers of God and followers of Christ.” (p226); line of
true witnesses for Christ during 1260 yrs. Of papacy prior to Reformation; fire
from mouth = spiritual as in Jer 5:14; rain as in Deut 32:2 and Isa 55:10ff;
plagues= calamities on the papacy when they persecuted the “heretics”
P: olive and lampstand may be referenced to Zech 4:11-14; they are reps of
religion anf government; lamps= highpriest; OR line of prophets “culminating
with John the Baptizer, who were witnesses against Jerusalem”; James and Peter
F: this is the last ½ of 70th week of Daniel; OR 1st ½ of Trib; description as
olive etc resembles Zech 4:11-14 but actions resembles Moses and Elijah; may
represent civil and religious authorities;
S: church throughout and shows that the mission thrust will be offensive; fire=
if someone sets out to destroy church, they will be destroyed
7th Trumpet
P: kingdoms become Christ does not = that all earth has come under Christ’s
command; this is the end of a great oppressor and the kingdom now belongs to
Christ; death is the martyred Christians; temple= temporaral vs eternal
F: Second Coming of Christ; there are then questions with judgments and
resurrections
S: final consummation of the reign of God; 2nd picture of Revelation; ark of
covenant= symbol of God’s faithfulness to church.
Rev 12 The Woman and Child
P: There are two camps at this point in the preterists camp. a) those who see
chpts 12-19 as a continuation of the prophesy against Jerusalem b) those who
see a transition and babylon represents Rome and its fall; this last group then
see ch 12 as a transition and understand it to be to the Jewish Christians who
fled. Most prets say that the woman is the faithful remnant of Israel and the
child is Jesus; under labor and pain= faithful Jews who have suffered as
they've waited for the Messaiah; dragon= Daniel's beasts into one (Dan 7); the
escape= Jewish believers who were able to escape Jerusalem; the wrath of
dragon= Satan's persecution OR God's wrath; the time in the wilderness= 3 1/2
years as in 11:2,3; 1260= a general term for persecution and also the literal
days of the Jewish Wars (66-70AD) OR Nero's persecution of the church
F: claim that RC see here Mary in her post assumption role as Queen of heaven;
futurists tend to take the woaman= church (Holiness say it only a professing
church vs male child= true overcomers (see Rev 2:27 and the reference to rod of
iron); majority see woaman= Israel and male child= Jesus because he rules with
a rod of irion (Psalm 2:9 and Rev 19:15). Non-dispensationalists may see woman
as "ideal faithful Israel" therefore the faithful of all times;
dragon= Satan and by extension = the revived Roman Empire of ch13; third of
stars= meterors OR the revolt of Satan in heaven (Jude 6; 2 P 2:4) where stars
=angelic beings (9:1; Job 38:7 and maybe Rev 1:20). But if this is the future
then there is chronological problems since this happened in the past.If one
keeps this in the future then maybe 1/3 of the people come under Satanic power.
This is not a retelling of the story of Christ. It goes from birth to
ascension; the flight= the Antichrist attacks on Jews possibly fleeing to
Petra; 1260= 2nd 1/2 of 70th week of Daniel (Dan 9:24-27) therefore 31/2 years
before Christ returns.
S: chpts 12-14= Act IV; this is more "descriptive than prophetic"; it
begins with birth of Christ then chifts to ascension then to the enthronement
and shows that Satan failed at birth to kill Christ and failed to prevent him
from becoming king; woman= remnant of OT or an ideal symbol of people of God;
celestial desription= Jospeh's dream (Gen 37:9); labor pains= Israel's
suffering before Christ while awaiting Messaiah; dragon= Satan; 7 heads= universal
(7) authority; 10 horns= political or military power; 7 crowns= political
authority; 1/3= fall of angels with Satan; male child= birth of Christ;
dragon's wrath on church after ascension of Christ; woman in wilderness= God
takes care of church during persecution
War in heaven
P: Since this is not sequential then the identification can be Jesus. Many are
leery of this because the JW’s understanding of Christ as a created being (or
angel). Archangel is not “a member of a superior class of angels” but “chief of
angels” which equals “commander of the Lord’s army” (jos 5:13-15).Saints have
overcome Satanic accusations. Saints take territory from Satan through the
preaching of the gospel. Dragon wants to stamp out church before it goes global.
Jesus said this could be done in one generation (Matt 16:28; 24:34)
F: shift from earth to heaven as war breaks out there. Dan 12 is in view. This
occurs in the middle of the trib. Even though some of the timing is disputed
the events seem to be future. Satan has been defeated in heaven but not on
earth where he continues to torment trib believers
S: retells conflict in vss 1-6 but from heaven’s vantage point. Just as Michael
defeats in heaven so Christ on earth. Satan is limited to earthly activity now.
Back on Earth
P: escape: Judean Church that flees from Roman invasion (Matt 24:15-28). Satan
is dragon in heaven and now serpent on earth. Wings of eagles= echo of Exodus
(Ex 19:4). “Like the woman in the vision, Israel had been delivered from the
dragon (Psa 74:13-14; Ezek 32:2).” As Israel was saved from flood of Red Sea so
church is saved from this flood.
F: Imagery used to describe Israel (Ex 19:4; Deut 32:11-12). Some take flood
literal others see it as “error” in contrast to life water of Christ. Others
see this as flood of weapons. Some do see symbolic flood here which = efforts
of Satan to exterminate Israel. Could be the reason dispensationalist call this
period (gret tib) the time of Jacob’s trouble
S: imagery of flight similar to Exodus. 3 ½ not literal but reminds us of when
Elijah prayed and rain stopped. Flood=people or errors
Rev 13 The Beast
P: Textual reading of “he stood” in reference to dragon vs “I stood”. Satan
looks for another way to destroy. Sea=Gentiles. Thus a gentile power represented
by beast. Beast= Roman Empire and specifically Nero. Rome could be the
persecuting power. Paul mentions being delivered from the mouth of a lion (2
Tim 4:17). The wounded return= After Nero the Empire continues. Could be blow
brought by gospel.
F: Beast rising goes back to Daniel 7. Sea=Gentile. Beast may rise from
Mediterranean area. Roman Empire (revived) leader. Will lead a coalition of 10
powers. Previous powers absorbed into one as in Daniel. Wounded but revives=
survives possible assassination. OR revival of Roman Empire
S: Prefers “he stood” in reference to dragon. From sea= any government that
opposes God’s people. Sea= nations of the Gentiles (Isa 17:12; 60:5). Satan is
disguised in political systems. Combining animals from Daniel = antichristian
governments. Wounded head= death of Nero but rise of Empire through Domitian.
Rev 13:5-10
P: blasphemies= emperor worship
F: 2nd half of trib; blasphemies from Dan 7:8; 2 Thess 2:4
S: governments who’ve required worship of leaders
Rev 13:11-15 2nd Beast
P: There are three major camps
a) emperor worship enforced by religious entity
b) speaks of a limited sphere and power: procurator of Judea under Nero could
be either Albinus or Gessius Florus
c) false prophets of Israel; the Jewish religious state against God
F: religious leader; universal victory of humanism; maybe Pope; maybe
Antichrist
S: false religion
Mark of the Beast 666
H: Lateinos or Latin; the mark= RC worship all done in Latin; receiving the
mark= the allusion to the practice
P: 666= Nero from the association of Hebrew letters with numbers. Thus the the
Hebrew NRWN OSR (Neron Kaiser)= 666 where N(nun)=50 R(resh)=200 W(waw) N=50
O=100 S=60 and R=20 for a total of 666. Hebrew would have been used because
Latin or Greek would have been recognized.
F: a system that replaces cash with a universal attainable accounts whereby
every individual’s finances can be accessed. A cashless society.
S: not a literal mark; representative of Nero or anyone against God; false
religion
What about the text problem that suggest that the number is actually 616?
Babylon
P: Rome or Jerusalem
F: religious system of idolatry; could be an actual city
S: society against God
Harvest and Vintage Rev 14:14-20
P: fall of Jerusalem; judgment of evil; harvest= flee of Judean Christians;
same imagery used with Babylon (Lam 1:15); vintage= judgment on city of
Jerusalem
F: judgment of wicked OR ingathering of saints
S: “final judgment at Christ’s coming” then the judgment of the wicked
1st Bowl
H: French Revolution seen in this whole vision
P: recipients either Rome or Jerusalem; if there is an assumption that
Jerusalem has become the next Egypt and the church the new Israel then there is
a resemblance to the Exodus (Ex 9:8-12).
F: occur at the end of the tribulation
S: these bowls resemble the plagues in Egypt. Bowls affect total ruin not 1/3.
Therefore these are punishments. Trumpets and bowls may be at same time. What
is a warning to one maybe a judgment to another.
2nd Bowl
P: Maybe trumpets = warnings and bowls= devastation after fall of Jerusalem; If
seen as on Rome trumpets would indicate local while a judgment on Rome would be
seen more universal. See Josephus Wars III:10:9 for a description of a bloody
battle on the Sea of Galilee.
F: Both bowl and trumpet affects sea, sea represents Gentile nation who will
experience wrath of God
S: sea symbol of humanity; sea can be used as a punishment weapon of God.
“Shipwrecks, sea battles, tsunamis and other sea disasters serve as a bowl
judgment, a messenger of death, upon wicked men whose time to repent has
expired-while the same disasters will have a different impact upon the
survivors or those who hear of them, serving as trumpet warnings to bring them
to repentance” (p361) What does this say about recent tsunamis and hurricanes?
3rd Bowl
P: If see as Jerusalem then can see fulfillment when waters became polluted
during siege. Reverse of water as being a blessing as in Garden of Eden. Verse
6 seems to indicate that Israel and Jerusalem were guilty of this killing.
F: slaughter of trib saints
S: in general for punishment of those against God; maybe refers to blood shed
by Roman Empire
4th Bowl
P: no time known when sun scorched either Jerusalem or Rome; but if sun=
political powers then surely this happened in both Rome and Jerusalem; reversal
of protection in Ex 13:21-22 and Psa 91:1-6). The breaking of covenant= Deut
28:22
F: not literal sun but political power of revived Roman Empire; although some
do think sun will heat up to destroy;
S: everywhere in history where people have died because of the judgment of God
to exposure to the elements.
5th Bowl
P: this one supports more of a Rome than Jerusalem; throne of beast = Rome;
darkness= political turmoil; could have been political situation with Nero’s
death
F: affects political powers of beast; could be a literal darkness; first 3
plagues still continue
S: throne of beast= center of antichristian government; possibly refers to
punishment of Rome; but can happen to all “anti-God forces”; darkness recalls
Egyptian darkness
6th Bowl
P: drying of Euphrates as a symbol of defeat; so defeat of first world power
also used to describe the last; Israel has become the one to be conquered since
she has rejected God; frogs may allude to 2nd Egyptian plague; neither see Armageddon
as literal (Megiddo). Refers to symbolically Mt Carmel where Elijah defeated
enemies of God; a name associated with one’s last defeat
F: gathering of nations at Armageddon for final battle; kings of the East=
China OR India OR Japan; frogs= demons who entice armies to come to Israel;
Armageddon= Har Megedon= Mt of Meggido or Mt of Slaughter. There is some
discussion as to where these armies are at second coming (see Zech 14:1-3)
S: forces fighting God; frogs= demons to entice kings; used for effect rather
than actual place; represents judgments of God on his enemies
7th Bowl
P: downfall of either Rome or Jerusalem; great earthquake= Heb 12:26-28
F: Satan’s realm dealt with in wrath; all that man has built will crumble
S: final judgment of God completed; total devastation nothing left from
judgment
Just so you’ll know, we are coming to the
end of this marathon. And I am glad. I am running out of gas and discipline.
Summary of Rev 17-19
H: the fall of Babylon= over throw of papal authority; white horse= continual
conquest of Christ through preaching of the gospel.
P: Babylon= Rome or Jerusalem;
F: Babylon= could be religious institution (as in the RCC), literal Babylon in
Iraq; or revived Rome; Jesus comes at the end of the trib.
S: Babylon= world systems that have opposed God and his people; manifested in
Rome of John’s day; Christ comes thru preaching of word.
Marriage of the Lamb
P: final divorce of Israel as God’s wife in 70 AD. This marriage signifies a
new age and the church is the new bride of the New Covenant.
F: shows a clear distinction between bride (church) and her guests (Israel, as
also John the Baptist was).
S: no distinction between bride (church) and guests (church also) just as Jesus
is Lamb and shepherd at the same time. It is the nature of poetic language.
As stated before these notes come from the
book 4 views on the Book of Revelation. Those 4 views are the historicist,
preterist, futurist, and spiritualists. But now in the 20th chapter of
Revelation the issue becomes one of millennium understanding (pre-, post-, or
a-).
Briefly, premillennialists believe in a literal 1000 yrs in which Christ will
reign as King. Satan will be bound in future; Christ will set up new heaven and
new earth after millennium. Postmillennialist believe that the 1000 yrs is not
necessary literal. It will be a time when the gospel has spread throughout the
earth and accepted by most. After this universal acceptance the Second Coming
will occur. There will be a general resurrection before Christ comes back.
Amillennialists believe Satan was bound at cross. The number 1000 represents
symbolically the church age. Satan will be let loosed to persecute the church
shortly before the end of the present age. A general resurrection will occur
just before Christ comes back. The prefixes are attached in how one views the
relationship of the Second Coming with the Millennium. If the 2nd coming is
before the Mil then one is pre-, if there is no literal 1000 yr reign then one
is a- or post-. What distinguishes the two is post- see a golden era of
Christianity before the Second Coming (but not necessarily a 1000 yr period).
Further there are two camps of premillies 1) the dispensationalists who believe
that Israel does have a distinct role to play in the future and the 2)
historicists who believe that special role will be the church not Israel. This
is the one thing that keeps me a dispensationalist—the distinct role of Israel
from the church. But don’t take that to assume I take the dispensationalist
view on every turn in the book of Revelation. In fact, I can see some value in
the preterists and spiritualists positions also. Within the postmillers, there
are those who belive the world be Christianized by mass conversion through
preaching, and there are those that believe the world be Christianized by
Christian ideals and governments being established worldwide (known as
Christian Reconstructionists).Amillies have problems here, in my humble
opinion, because every predictive prophecy of a “peaceful” time is
spiritualized (espesically in the Old testament). One has to approach the study
of the Rev 20 from their own understanding of the millennium and not the other
4 ways of viewing the book. For example Luther and Calvin were both amillers
and historicists, but Jay Adams is amiller and a preterist.
I’ve always been a strong premiller. I’ve heard the arguments for and against
both the posties and the amillies. Personally they are not convincing. I am
looking forward to reading these last couple of chapters.
Rev 20
The Binding of Satan
Pre: ‘then’ = next in a series; how can Satan be bound now seeing the condition
of the world, there will be a future binding.
Post: ‘then’ signals events to occur after preceding ones, which was the
successful preaching of the gospel; an effect of this gospel preaching is that
the influence of Satan will be almost nothing. But some do see this as
millennium in the future after the preaching of the gospel.
Ams: ‘then’= only the order of visions not chronologically fulfilled.
Non-literal passage of dragons and serpents
being chained etc. therefore the 1000 yrs also. Binding of Satan happened at
cross.
1000 yr reign
Pre: trib saints and church age saints resurrect to rule with Christ; at the
end of the 1000yrs the wicked are resurrected; literal the resurrections.
Post: first resurrection= “vindication of the cause for which the martyrs
dies.” Some see first rez as the spirit of the martyr revived. As the amillers,
first rez symbolic of regeneration of believer OR Christ rez. Christian
Reconstructionists see it as the world becoming more and more Christianized
(Psa 72:11)
Ams: spiritual reign of believers on Earth OR blessedness of saints after death
but before rez. Non-literal use of 1000 (Deut 7:9; Psa 50:10; Josh 23:10; Psa
91:7)and always used to express a long time not 1000 (Psa 90:4; Eccl 6:6; 2 Pet
3:8). Question if “they lived and reigned with Christ” can = “they came to
life” if so then supports premies. Although “coming to life” could refer to
going to heaven not physical resurrection. But just as much the wording could
mean they kept on living as on earth. Is the aorist active indicative to be
taken ingressive or constantive? First rez has to be spiritual because of
general rez at the end. “The Christian experience can be spoken of in terms of
a spiritual rising from death (John 5:24; 11:34-35; Eph 2:5-6; Col 2:13;
3:1;Rom 6:4-5,13).
Rev 21-22 New Creation
Now the issue is whether this is a literal or symbolic New Heaven and New
Earth.
Summary of beliefs
Literal: New planet Earth created after millennium or 2nd Coming. New Jerusalem
is the home of redeemed.
Non-Literal: nonmaterial world of heaven; OR Paul’s New Creation ( 2 Cor 5:17)=
old has passed away all things becoming new; New Jerusalem= church with new
Holies of Holies as God tabernacles with men.
In the coming days (hopefully) I’ll try to add my two cents.
Here are some concluding remarks from
reading the book Revelation 4 Views A Parallel Commentary edited by Steve
Gregg.
I set out to try to find some answers to some questions I had had about the end
times. I had heard about the preterist and historicist and spiritualist, but I
wanted to know how they dealt with particular passages. Coming from a strong
dispensationalist background, I wanted to see other ways of interpreting “end
time” prophecy. I set to see if I could remain a futurist and a
dispensationalist. I also wanted to see how Matt 24 meshed within the different
viewpoints and especially Matt 24:14 “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached
in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.”
Dr. J Rankin had used it at our appointment to encourage us. And for the record
I am not in a debate over Dr. Rankin, I am simply trying to find out for myself
what I think about this verse in its relationship to the canon (as how does
Revelation fit into the whole of the canon) as well as those famous verses in
Revelation about every tribe tongue and nation.
So, I will attempt to interact on a very elementary level with all three views
(the historicist view having been rejected). State where I think I am on the
issue and why. Then, try to see the whole of Revelation in relationship to the
canon. Finally, I want to interact with Matt 24 in relationship to world wide
evangelism. This will be difficult I can assure you, but I am willing to go
through the activity.
Through reading I have gained a better appreciation for all three views. As
with all systems each has its strengths and its weakness. At this point I am
not willingly to say any of the three views seem unreasonable (however I do
reject the historicist view partly on reason. My main problem with this view is
its focus on Western Christianity and squeezing history into it, although this
could also be alleged against the preterist view and the futurist view also).
One of the strengths I find with the pretersist view is an attempt to interpret
Revelation as the last in a long line of God’s judgments on Israel. However,
that could also be its weakness. If one takes the preterist view too far it may
lead to anti-Semitic attitudes and thoughts. But that attitude could also come
from other factors. I am not saying that a preterist view will lead to
anti-Semitism. I just think it could move one on that direction if one were already
inclined to that. Also, I do not hold to a replacement theology (i.e. Israel
rejected God so God replaced them with the Church as His chosen people), which
the preterist view certainly holds. I can’t completely reject this view, but I
personal do not hold to it. Many instances are pressed hard into the fall of
Jerusalem and/or the fall of Rome.
The futurist viewpoint also has some good points to make. It seems that the
book could be describing the future. But as with the preterist critique there
are some features that seem pressed too hard. So, why am I not rejecting it? I
still hold to a futurist view point because the events described appear not to
have ever occurred yet. I am not going to advocate everything espoused by
futurist, but overall I think I can take the understanding in general. I also
have to stay a dispensationalist at the moment but only a very minimum one. I
could easily be convinced to see outside of the dispensationalism frame except
for the Israel vs the Church issue. It’s hard not to see that God has a plan
for Israel and no matter how much they as a nation have run from Him, He is a
God of grace and mercy. I am just like Israel, and I hope God has not divorced
me forever and replaced me with someone else. I don’t mind if others come on
board, in fact I hope they do, but I don’t want to be replaced (yes I am aware
of the entire book of Romans!!). I still believe the Abrahamaic covenant. If
you bless Israel then God will bless you. The futurist have some squabbles
among themselves over the timing of the trib. That’s fine. I personally believe
the Bible does not give enough information to say definitively when the
tribulation will happen. I only hold to a pretribulation view because I believe
in the imminent return of Christ. But again when the tribulation happens is a
small thing. I believe Jesus is coming, and could come at any minute. But I can
see how the Scripture could teach that the church will endure persecution
(tribulation) then Jesus will return also.
In saying all that I really enjoy the spiritualist viewpoint. It appears they
have been given a bad image by my fellow futurists, and I hate that because I
think they have a lot to offer. The only thing I out right reject is their
rejection of a literal 1st resurrection but then accept a literal 2nd
resurrection (Rev 20:5-6 vs Rev 20:12-15). There indeed may a general
resurrection of the wicked and the righteous, but there indeed may also be two
separate resurrections. However, I do like how the book is interpreted where it
has relevance for both John’s audience and all of God’s people no matter what
time they live. Finding relevance for all of God’s people throughout the ages
is a problem for both the preterist (relevant for fleeing Christians during
invasion) and the futurist (mostly relevant for Tribulation Saints). But this
has also been said about all Biblical prophecy and history (finding relevance
today in So and so begat so and so etc is a challenge).
After discussing briefly some of the strengths and weaknesses of the three
views and stating that I am still a futurist with a hint of dispensationalism,
I move on to examining how the book of Revelation relates to the entire canon.
This could be a master’s thesis, so obviously my dealing with it here will be
incomplete and subject and shallow. Please allow me that. One of the things
that the preterist viewpoint has done is allowed me to see a continuation of
the happening in Daniel. If God uses (used, and I think he does) other nations
to discipline the nation of Israel, then the book of Revelation shows us the
Roman invasion. There were the Assyrians, the Babylonians (Daniel and Isaiah et
al), The Medes/Persians (Daniel and Isaiah et al), The Greeks (see the
apocryphal books), then the Romans (Revelation). The Hebrews have always had a
hard time staying with Yahweh, and when God came down to them in flesh and was
rejected, then I can see how God punished them with the Romans (and how one can
see that punishment in Revelation, just like the other prophetic books). In
that case, Revelation completes what began in Babylon under Daniel. It also
offers hope to the fallen Hebrews as well as me who falls away to. My whole
life may be judged with Babylon then Media and Persia then Greek then Rome, but
God still puts up with me. So, Revelation is not only the end but also a
glimpse of eternity. And this is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, so the book
must give the Christian community a revelation of who Jesus is (and yes I have
taken the text crit issue into account). The book of Revelation (from the
spiritualist) demonstrates that the Christian life will be hard and we will be
persecuted in some manner and will be asked to be martyrs in some manner. It
encourages us when we do go through those tough times (taught by Christ to his
disciples).
Finally an attempt will be made to talk through a biblical perspective on world
evangelism including Matt 24. We’ve not talked much about the Millennium views.
I think that is where lines are more clearly drawn. And even though I think
one’s millennial views are important, the issue should not be a criteria for
fellowship. Nevertheless, I am a premiller. I simply accept this view because
it seems to me that Scripture teaches a literal thousand year reign of Christ
on the earth. But if I were a postmiller, I think I would take Matt 24:14 as
meaning that the entire world eventually be evangelized and most would accept
it. That is a highly optimistic view, not to mention how that plays out with
the corruption of sin issue. Maybe the amillers would take a similar approach
except without the golden age of a millennium. Premillers have taken this to
mean that the Jesus will not return until the world has been evangelized. This
seems to give credence to the post-trib view ( i.e. accepting that the world
has not been evangelized). So, what is the pre-tribers response? One is too say
Jesus’ words meant “known” world which would mean the Roman Empire being
evangelized accomplished at some point in the past. Then one could say that
“requirement” has been made so the return is imminent. Two, you could say that
the entire world will be evangelized (this from a pre-trib viewpoint) in the
Tribulation by the 144000 Jewish evangelists. Then Jesus will return. Thus, the
rapture would not technically be the 2nd Coming. But what if you believe that
the world has not been evangelized yet, but you are a pre-tribber and believe
in the imminent return of Christ. It seems a “requirement” has yet to made so
Jesus won’t return before the world is evangelized. At this point I do not want
to try to defend the pre-trib position. What I want to do is to see if a
pre-trib view can be consistent with a belief that the world has not been
evangelized. I do not have a answer here. But I know tons of pre mill,
pretribers who do. I think this calls for further investigation until then...
...as you are going out MAKE DISCIPLES and teach them the
commands of Jesus baptizing them in the name of FATHER, SON, and HOLY
SPIRIT...because God desires the entire world to hear the good news and wants
to give them a chance to repent so that EVERY TRIBE TONGUE and NATION can stand
before Him and give Him his due worship for worship has been His desire every
since He CREATED us.